Charlotte Pudlowski, author of "or perhaps one night": "This book is a declaration of love to my mother"

La Commission indépendante sur l’inceste et les violences sexuelles faites aux enfants (Ciivise) a organisé son premier colloque, le 17 novembre, et publié les résultats d’un appel à témoignages lancé en septembre dernier auprès des victimes d’inceste. En seulement deux mois, 6200 personnes ont ainsi répondu au questionnaire de l'institution créée par Emmanuel Macron le 23 janvier 2021. Premier résultat : 100% des victimes considèrent que la société ne protège pas assez les enfants. Et pour cause, le sujet est encore tabou. Etouffé dans le silence.

This silence is precisely the one that strives to break the journalist Charlotte Pudlowski since she discovered that he reigned within her family.She published in September or perhaps one night (1), a book adapted from her eponymous podcast, released a year earlier, which earned her to be rewarded from the Philippe Chaffanjon Prize for the French report, then the CB News PrizeBest podcast 2021.The co -founder of studio Louie Media went to meet incest victims, starting with her mother.It is to her, as well as to her sister, that she dedicated her work.Meeting with a clear and strong voice.

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On video, the campaign against violence against children

Madame Figaro.- Why did you choose to adapt the podcast in book? Charlotte Pudlowski.- At first, when I planned to tell the story of my mother, I wanted to do it through a book.And then I co -founded the Louie Media studio, so I did it in the form of a podcast.It also made sense to make this story of silence and unsaid with voices heard ... and silences.But to tell this in a book, it was to use the media of secrecy with the most taboo and unspeakable.The transgression of silence is greater because it is a tangible object in which the story exists, materializes.We can share it, see the words, take them in pictures.I had to free myself from the prohibitions around the subject of incest, and the podcast made it possible to go in stages towards the exit of silence.The book is the culmination.

"Intellectual capsize"

If the frame of the book is the same as that of the podcast, it is not an exact replica of the audio.Meanwhile the situation has evolved...The challenge was to integrate into the book what had happened in a year, since the release of the podcast, in particular the release of Camille Kouchner's book, La Familia Grande, but also the legal transformations and the national movement of reflection anddebates on incest that emerged in our society.The person I was when creating the podcast was also different from the one I was when writing or perhaps one night.The exit of the podcast caused me an immense intellectual capsize but also psychological.I was no longer the same "I".So I tried to sew it all in the frame of the podcast.

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Did this other format allow you to reach another audience than that of the podcast?The podcast is a younger industry, and a whole group of the population continues to go more easily to books than to podcasts.But reading and listening are also two very different "consumption modes".For some people, it is easier to read than to listen, because the book can be more reassuring.You can jump a difficult passage for example.For some, it is to hear the voices which turns out to be too painful.

To listen to, the editorial staff

Multiplying the supports to talk about incest, was it also a way of leading this "war against silence", as it is written on the headband?The idea is to make incest and its challenges known as possible.First of all because this subject is extremely important politically, but it is also very important for the victims.It is a key to understanding our society and that is what I aspire through my job as a journalist.

Was the book welcome different from that of the podcast?What struck me was the difference with which people told me what they experienced.They did it with a lot of delicacy when I met them in bookstores, while the way to indulge in the internet was much more brutal.Of course, everyone does as he can and I do not issue any criticism.But it is true that meetings in bookstores are very beautiful moments.Many people wrote to me to tell me that thanks to or perhaps one night, they had been able to talk about what had happened to them to those around them.Knowing that I have been able to help them is my greatest source of joy and I hope this work will continue to help many others.

Incest is a very taboo subject, that's what you point your finger through your investigations.Do you feel that the subject has become easier to approach?It may be just an impression, but I again feel a reluctance to talk about it.When Camille Kouchner's book was out (January 7, 2021, note), there was a renewed interest in the podcast or perhaps one night.We felt that we were passing a step in terms of acceptance of this subject.The mainstream media who did not want to talk about it before started to do so.Then summer passed, the report saved (on pedocrime in the Church, editor's note) came out and I was amazed to see that we were being moved as if we discovered the extent of these violence for the firsttime.It was already in one of the newspaper Le Monde six months earlier.How could people discover these figures now?The perpetual forgetting that I am talking about in or perhaps one night is also what the book embodies.The fact of always having to start again, always repeat things and not to let the silence come back.

In or perhaps one night, you explain all the forms of silence that surround the subject of incest in our society.Breaking the silence, making the victims heard, is the first step to fight this scourge?It is fundamental to make the victims heard.It is a duty to ensure that this word circulates and is heard.But we must be careful that this word does not turn into noise, because that is enough for people to say "it's good, we heard them, now we move on to something else".For things to change, it is not enough to repress or to ensure that the attackers are condemned.We must change the relations of domination in our society to prevent children from being violated.

"The words of one mobilize those of others"

The experts you ask, like the defender of women and children's rights, Eva Thomas, or the psychiatrist Muriel Salmona, say they are "discouraged" to fight and denounce the fact that nothing moves.What drives you?What happened this year gave hope to Eva Thomas.She is again in action and has regained a form of optimism.I am not in a logic of activism.I am trying to understand the society in which we live and tell the mechanisms of the best that I can.But what gives me hope is the richness of reflection carried out on feminism and the mechanisms of domination.It is exciting and it makes it possible to find an intellectual momentum despite the difficulty of the subject.I am also very sensitive to the passage of relays between those who talk about incest.Between Camille Kouchner and me for example.The words of one mobilize those of others.I was also very marked by the consent of Vanessa Springora.In the end, we are a collective and this generates collective action.

Your mother is a central element of your story, how did she experience the release of the book and what was the impact on your family circle?Thanks to the podcast already, the subject is no longer taboo in my family, and it is even less so since the release of the book.As for my mother, she finds that I did something beautiful from her story.It is for her immense consolation which is renewed each time.This book is also a declaration of love to my mother.She is almost 70 years old, and before the release of the book, she had already done a huge job on herself.But this book tells her how much people love her, how important she is and her story too.This is enough to justify the three years that I spent working on the subject.

(1) or perhaps one night - incest: the war of silence, Editions Grasset, 272pages, 20 euros.